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What has it looked like for a former wayward to make meaningful amends for their infidelity? Is it just becoming a safe partner? Cause that doesn’t really seem to have a "compensating" kind of element to it, it’s just doing what they should have done anyway. Does amends even apply in R from infidelity?

I think making amends to the marriage means acknowledging mistakes, addressing the issues with their choices that have hurt the marriage, taking the necessary steps to rebuild and repair the relationship, and working together to pursue a healthier, more fulfilling relationship.

In particular, I think this means:

- Open and honest communication, willingness to express feelings and concerns without anger, deflection, judgement, and actively listening to what your partner says

- Offering sincere apologies and taking ownership for the choices made and hurt that has been caused without blameshifting, asking for forgiveness, and putting solid plans in place to make sure it doesn't happen again

- Working on your own shit - understanding and fixing one's personal issues that lead to destructive and selfish choices and disregard for the other spouse

- Understanding what your spouse is saying, making an effort to empathise and understand their perspective and feelings and respecting their rights and needs and fears

- Establishing healthy boundaries, agreeing what is or isn't acceptable, and willingness to enforce those boundaries to protect the marriage

- Making changes in behaviours, choices, attitudes that have been causing problems, being committed to these changes and working toward a healthier relationship

- Having the patience to understand that healing is a process and takes time and energy, not wanting to rush through or rugsweep, understanding the pain that has been caused and a spouse's right to grieve and heal on their own time

- Having a shared vision of what the marriage should look like, a plan for how to get there, spending time together to rebuild the emotional connections and reestablish the trust.

Note - this isn't specifically limited to infidelity, nor is it trying to appease your spouse's whims. It's a commitment to work through the challenges and put in the time, effort, cooperation, and commitment necessary to building back stronger and healthier.

[This message edited by SerJR at 12:30 AM, Wednesday, October 18th]

InkHulk,

What it would mean to me, is complete and self emptying honesty.

I don't want a perfect wife just a completely honest one.

I get worried when I hear someone post that his wife has been perfect after her affair, sound like it's out of guilt, or converted herself into a stepford wife.

InkHulk - the word ‘amends’ is a great choice, because it’s about making a situation more real and more fair, but not about cancelling the debt and absolving yourself of responsibility.

Between SerJr and Srvrus, there’s some of the best advice you can get to target that objective. Be your best self, and be real. 99% isn’t enough.

It’s so ironic that the BS that’s there for a WS offering the gift of reconciliation in the aftermath of an affair would have been the perfect person to turn to years earlier - before the infidelity - to say "I have some shit to work out and I need your help and support".

I have felt that complete honesty was something that should just be a given (even though it wasn’t given at first!). Not cheating or doing anything that could be remotely interpreted as such was also more of a requirement than an act of making amends.

So for me the making amends have been the things he’s done that show recognition for what the damage has been to my sense of being loved. Again, maybe it’s a little different because this is all relating back to cheating 8 years ago so he has had a long time to figure out my needs in this regard.

But I have felt that sense of him making amends when he goes out of his way to tell me how loved I am or how much he appreciates me. Even before coming clean last year about the fact that his EA was actually a months long PA he devoted a lot of time to reminding me that I saved our family and how grateful he was for that. His energetic commitment to anti-trigger pro-active support has become almost funny in the last few months in how hard he tries to make sure nothing throws me. Whether it is working late or going to a work dinner he is all about the inviting me to come, sending pictures, whatever is needed to be sure I don’t get anxious about it. He always did these things after the cheating but since he amped it way up my anxiety level has plummeted. I feel so so much more comfortable.

For the past year whenever it got really ugly and really rocky — and it did frequently—he has repeated the mantra that he was not going anywhere no matter what as long as I would have him. So even when he got defensive and angry and it really seemed like we hated each other, there was this floor underneath me that he would stick with the marriage forever. This has helped to mend the wounds from feeling our marriage was disposable. Defensiveness and anger are down about 80%. He always acknowledged that my staying was negotiable until I figured out how I felt about his new information. It feels like we are finally seeing some upside after the sheer horror unleashed by coming clean. I feel really really grateful for the progress.

I think you are right that the BS needs to feel like there are active purposeful acts of atonement being done by the WS. I have also appreciated the many years of patient and devoted rebuilding of my husband’s relationship with our middle daughter. She did not know much but could see my anguish and frenzied worry and that was enough for her to hate him for years. All of a sudden their new relationship is finally blossoming.

There's nothing that can be done by a wayward to balance the scales. The betrayal is that bad. How exactly are the going to make amends for it? Relationships need balance to be healthy so compensation seems off also especially long term. What I would have wished for most was a spouse that was obviously doing the work to be safe. A spouse that gave me grace when I triggered and untrusting because of what she did. That got down on the floor with me during those times and did her best to comfort me. Unfortunately, or really fortunately, my ex wasn't capable of that.

I don't want a perfect wife just a completely honest one.

I get worried when I hear someone post that his wife has been perfect after her affair, sound like it's out of guilt, or converted herself into a stepford wife.

I agree on both counts. I don't want perfection. I want authenticity, transparency, introspection, and growth. If I can't have that, I'm not interested.

I tend to think of amends as an on-going, almost perpetual set of actions that demonstrate a cheater has truly been reformed and changed their ways...and it shows through their actions. Very specifically, actions taken by the FWS that show that they are taking into consideration the needs of their partner and the perspective of their partner.

I will give what I feel is a minor example of my own behavior that I'm still working on changing. Independent of infidelity, I'm a madhatter after all, my wife has expressed how she feels I'm very indecisive and it has always bugged her that she can't make plans because she never knows where I stand. An example, my wife went out and saw the Taylor Swift Concert movie at the theater with her friends and before she went, she had asked me if I was cool with her going because she knows I don't have interest in going and because that would mean I'm at home watching our son. What my life laments is that in years past, if a similar scenario came up, one of my go-to responses would be "I don't know" or 'we'll see" or "sure" and obviously, what I meant by those expressions is not what was being interpreted on other end...I was bad at the communication here and my word choice was doing me no favors. However, when we talked about the issue and I dug into it with my IC, what was really happening is that I didn't want to disappoint my wife so I used "I don't know" or "we'll see" to communicate I wasn't on board with something when a simple, "I don't like the idea of you doing X and here's why" would've been a much better bet. This is an example of how my behaviors and attitudes in the past hurt my wife and left her feeling like she wasn't being listened to by me and so I've put a lot of effort into trying to give her a clear yes/no answer, going so far as to affirmatively say "No, I'm not okay with that" or "Yes, sounds good, have fun". I feel that this is an amend that I'm making for the betterment of our relationship and it is something that I will be doing for the rest of my marriage with her.

Thanks all, I latch on to the idea that the best that can be done is a whole hearted presence in the marriage. But again, that just feels like trying to achieve an ideal that really has nothing to do with infidelity, it was the ideal even before hand. If you steal, you repay. If you break, you rebuild. Nothing to do when it’s matters of the heart and soul, no payment can be made.
I think the idea of having a spirit of humility and vigilance from the offending partner also seems very appropriate, maybe that is an extra effort that is unique to the circumstances that a relationship untouched by infidelity would not have.

I’m obviously not in reconciliation with my ex, but when I think of making amends, it’s about making a concerted effort to give back something that was stolen or loss.

Obviously, she can’t un-fuck her affair partner. Sex can’t be recouped but she could attempt to recoup the time and money spent in the affair.

This can be done a lot of ways. For example, she could get a job and make money to recoup the marital funds she spent on the affair and the money she received in support while you were working your ass off so she had the leisure time to sleep with someone else.

As for time, instead of pursuing independent hobbies (like the one that got her involved with the OM) she could find a shared activity or hobby in which you could participate in as a couple. Alternately, if there is something in which you had an interest but couldn’t because of the demands of work and home life, she should be willing to give you that leisure time to pursue that interest, even if it means taking on more at home.

I think the most important thing of all is to reinforce that reconciliation does not mean simply going back to the old status quo. She needs to put you at the center of her life, the way you have always put her happiness and her needs first, even when she didn’t deserve it.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 6:39 PM, Wednesday, October 18th]

We started MC right after D-day. We’ve since stopped and are now doing IC. But one helpful thing she said was that WH should try to compensate for some of things he ruined with his cheating. For example, I found out he texted the AP during a weekend we were away and MC said he should take me away again since he ruined that weekend by cheating. I guess that’s a form of amends? I agree that honesty, fidelity, and being a good spouse are bare minimum. That’s expected from the faithful spouse as well.

For example, she could get a job and make money to recoup the marital funds she spent on the affair and the money she received in support while you were working your ass off so she had the leisure time to sleep with someone else.

BTB, she did get a job, about this time a year ago. It’s been a nice addition to the family finances.

She needs to put you at the center of her life, the way you have always put her happiness and her needs first, even when she didn’t deserve it.

This is too strong of a statement for my situation. No way I would make a claim like that, that I have always put her first. I believe we both need to grow to putting eachother in a proper place in life.

For example, I found out he texted the AP during a weekend we were away and MC said he should take me away again since he ruined that weekend by cheating.

I can see a targeted gesture like this, taking something specific ruined by the A and redoing it, as a good example of making amends. Thanks.

My usual take is that you should do the thing in front of you in a simple and right way.

Once I decided to reconcile, I wasn’t after an over-correction, thinking that would balance things and lead eventually to equilibrium.

I wanted simple things from her quickly, like don’t sneak around, do keep promises. Self imposed thou shalts and thou shalt nots.

I have tried to discipline myself not to do or want things which are clearly incompatible with being a husband and father. With some honesty and self-discipline it’s pretty obvious what fits and what doesn’t. It’s no prison. It doesn’t mean you have no choices. There is plenty of room for joy and freedom there. Sometimes exercising the patience and consistency has been uncomfortable, I don’t know what that is born of. I just think it is human nature to have to work to keep things simple and on track, so you need to find that strength in yourself. Sometimes I have visualized just standing still and letting the inconsistent things burn off me. It’s mostly worked. I think it’s a kind of silent prayer.

My wife was always indecisive. It’s cost her a lot.

I needed her to decide, and live with it.

I needed her to decide for good, not just for now.

I needed her to let go of things which were such a clash with that tenet that she had to nurse a secret life. I’m not talking about giving up privacy, dignity and healthy autonomy. I’m talking about choosing honesty, to the extent we fallible humans are capable of preferring it.

Once she did decide (I think she has), she stopped doing things like blowing thousands of dollars of our savings for the thrill of it.

I saw it reflected more in how she treated me and what she said to the kids.

The payback is that I can relax again and not feel like everything is going down the gurgler.

I will take that as amends if she keeps it up for years.

... I latch on to the idea that the best that can be done is a whole hearted presence in the marriage. But again, that just feels like trying to achieve an ideal that really has nothing to do with infidelity, it was the ideal even before hand.

You're right.. you hope they can somehow cultivate something that should have been there all along. That 'thing' would surely have to be empathy. It would be hard to understand how someone who had it could cheat in the first place - and harder still to imagine how they'd be a good candidate for R if they hadn't developed the skill to empathize. That's the ONLY thing I'm monitoring right now in this R. It leads to all the other things.

changed my mind.

[This message edited by TheEnd at 10:18 PM, Wednesday, October 18th]

This is too strong of a statement for my situation. No way I would make a claim like that, that I have always put her first. I believe we both need to grow to putting eachother in a proper place in life.

Were you a perfect person? No. But at the same time, there are always times when one spouse has to give more than the other.

But given the selfishness and self-centered attitude that you described of her before, during, and after the affair— and the seemingly boundless patience, compassion, and grace that you have demonstrated, even after repeated, ugly discoveries— I can safely assume you’ve done a lot more giving than taking over the course of your relationship.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 1:04 AM, Thursday, October 19th]

What is it YOU want?

I think that is the answer to what making amends is.

You will have a picture in your mind, a collection of thoughts and hopes for how she, you and the marriage will evolve to be. Her striving towards that with you is what making amends is.

Making amends isn't a checklist. It's trying to restore balance with the other person. To help the other person recover emotionally and to help you repair the relationship.

A lot of the things people here have listed are great, but they aren't what I needed to feel like amends had been made.

You will have your own list inside.

Do you know what it is?

That’s the toughest part of reconciliation- it requires grace. I think that shows up increments over time as trust and respect are earned back. From my perspective of where you two are it will be a while before you feel enough has happened that you feel attempts of amends starting to soothe that. That’s normal and appropriate.

Something was taken from you that will never be given back in equal measure.I think amends can be mixed up with punishment or penalties which in my mind has no place in reconciliation but it’s understandable for those scenarios to go through your head.

For us, it was a matter of me showing up and fighting for us. Working on me, practicing what I was learning. It takes time to gain all that should have been there in the first place. But my dedication to it has slowly earned back respect and trust. I would say love but I think he never stopped loving me, and that was significant in his torment in the aftermath. I see that in your posts too.

I think what we have both gotten at the other end is a better spouse and a far better marriage. We have both lost a lot and gained a lot through the process.

In my opinion there is nothing a ws can give that makes up for the devastating damage of infidelity. It instead requires the ws to be consistent and dedicated for a long period of time. From there, it then requires both people to move forward in the mindset of focusing on the present and building a future.

Right now your wife is working on herself and making a new track record for herself moving forward. It’s not at a stage where you will feel amends no matter what is happening. You might feel hopeful but she has a mountain still to keep climbing, and either that will make giving her grace easier, or you will learn this is not something you can move forward with. Give yourself the time and space to feel anything and everything and the answers will come.

There is a reason they say 2-5 years. We progressively got better over that time, we are now over six year from my dday and 3 from his, and I have just in the last six months or so felt settled again.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:03 AM, Thursday, October 19th]

What is it YOU want?

Well, I want her, unguarded, vulnerable, exclusive. Which I think comes right back around to this whole heartedness idea. Empathy is undoubtedly a necessary element of that.
I have a list of requirements for R, those have been discussed here more than once. I can’t say I’ve thought of those as amends.

And even her getting a job, I don’t think of that as amends either. I like the extra money, sure, but I would give it up for what she brought to our children’s lives with that time. Summers, breaks, afternoons, sicknesses, my kids all get less parental investment now because of that job. I see her job as a necessary consequence that tragically impacts the kids.

It’s a tricky concept here. I think if I’m honest with myself, I’ve wanted her to make some grand gestures. And maybe they would all seem hollow if she tried. But it’s the times when we truly connect, those are what make the horrors worth it.

I've given up on 'amends'. Sure, I want an authentic W/fWS - but I thought she was authentic all along, an becoming authentic is something that I think we owed each other anyway.

I just don't see how a WS can make up for what they didn't give before R started. I can't imagine how that would work.

Even something a measurable as 'repaying' what a WS spent on the A ... that doesn't come without a cost. Sure my W could have gotten a job to repay what she spent, but that takes time away from being together, which is a cost. And if she had gotten a different job within, say, 2 years of d-day, not only would we have lost the together time; also I'd have had to deal with anxiety over her finding another ap.

IMO, amends here is about justice, and R requires giving up justice as a goal.

JMO, of course. Someone may come up with a way for a WS to make amends. I just haven't seen one that convinces me yet, other than giving me what my W owed me from the start.

I R'ed because my W gave me a lot before her A and because I could see her becoming authentic and giving me even more of what I wanted.